129. Twins In Fiction

KIM: Hi everyone. Welcome to another Last Ladies of Lit mini episode. I'm Kim Askew here with my co-host, Amy Helmes.

AMY: Hey there. So first up today, before we get into our topic we just want to update you all on an amazing email we got at the start of the year. Kim saw it first, and all I saw was a text from you Kim saying, “Omg Omg,” which always means either something amazing or awful has happened. So I was like, “What?! What?!”

KIM: Yes, totally, it could be either, you never know. Um, I was hyperventilating basically, though, because we got an email from Firoza (I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly) Jhabvala. She's the daughter of Ruth Prawer Jhabvala. So Firoza wrote us saying, "I want to tell you how much I loved the podcast you did on our mother. What a warm and moving tribute it was. Thank you for spreading the word on her wonderful writing." I was crying after I read that because I thought it was like the coolest, sweetest thing to get that.

AMY: I know. I love that she reached out to us. And she also let us know that, uh, she actually created a new website about her mom's life and writing. So listeners, you should check that out. It's ruthprawerjhabvala.com. You'll find a list there of all her novels, short story collections and screenplays, but it also has some great photos too. We loved getting to know all about Ruth for that episode, and we know you'll love her too, so if you haven't yet, go back and listen. Um, we did that episode last year, and especially if you're a fan of Merchant Ivory films, because she was their screenwriter.

KIM: Yeah, this is reminding me, it's almost time for my yearly Room With a View screening. I try to watch it and read the book at least once a year. The E.M. Forster novel, though I must say, it's going to be with a lot of sadness that I rewatch it this year, because at least right now as far as we know Julian Sands, who, um, plays George Emerson is missing, presumed dead, from a hike here around Los Angeles. It was really cold and everything where he was hiking, so it's terrible. 

AMY: I know. It's awful. 

KIM: I'm so sad. 

AMY: Yeah, I did not like seeing the news. 

KIM: Yeah. He was in Boxing Helena, too. I love him.

AMY: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So,

KIM: Anyway.

AMY: Tribute to him. But moving on back to today's episode, um, so sometimes we brainstorm what topics to cover for these episodes, and then at other times the universe just tells us, and that's what happened for today's topic. I have had a weird, almost uncanny reading experience here lately, but first Kim, I wanna sing a little diddy in honor of today's topic, and I wanna see if you can identify what it's from. [sings] "Let's get together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The sooner the better."

KIM: Parent Trap! Haley Mills. Yeah, I mean, I love that movie. It's actually adapted from a German novel called Lottie and Lisa by Erich Kastner. Oh gosh, I watched that so many times as a kid. I loved that movie. It was so great. I wanted to have that sleepaway camp experience so bad. 

AMY: And I know there's a Lindsay Lohan version and maybe some of our listeners prefer that one, but it will always be...

KIM: Hailey Mills for us. Yeah, totally. Um, but how does that tie into your strange reading experience? I can't wait to find out.

AMY: Okay. So I ended up selecting four consecutive novels randomly that had nothing to do with this podcast, really, I just was reading them in between for my own pleasure. And each one, as I went along, happened to have twins at the center of the story. I would finish a novel about twins, and then I would pick another novel and it would be about twins. And it happened four books in a row. And at the fourth one, I was like, "What the hell is happening right now?" 

KIM: Right. Have you been doing a double take or something? Sorry. 

AMY: Yes. 

KIM: But what are the books? What are they?

AMY: Okay, so I'll go through these books and then we can talk more about twins and fiction. But the first book I had picked up was Hamnet, which you had given me a while ago, and I just never got around to it. Um, and so of course Shakespeare had, twins, Hamnet and Judith, and so they factor into the story. It's set during the plague. Judith winds up getting sick, and then, because Hamnett and Judith have such a close bond with one another, their physical bond ties into what happens with the plague.

KIM: Right. Yeah. 

AMY: So I think a lot of people know Hamnet. It came out a few years ago. Maggie O'Farrell. Um, so then I was like, all right, moving on to the next book. I'm trying to get through a bunch of the books that are sitting crowding around my nightstand, just to work my way through the pile. So the second one that I read, which is another book that you had lent me a long time ago, was Cassandra at the Wedding by Dorothy Baker. 

KIM: Oh yeah. That's great. 

AMY: Yeah. I mean, you could consider her a lost lady of Lit. She also wrote, um, the Man with the…?

KIM: Young Man with a Horn, which is also amazing. Yeah. 

AMY: Yeah. So maybe we can do a future episode on that one.

KIM: I think we should.

AMY: But, um, so this book, Cassandra at the Wedding, was written in 1962. It's about two twins, Cassandra and Judith. Another, Judith. Uh, so right away I'm like, "Wait, what? Two more twins, and another one's named Judith?" Like, what's going on? Um, this one, Judith is going to be getting married. She is at her father's house. They live on a ranch in the Bay Area in a cool, kind of mid-century house, which is reminding me a lot while I was reading it of the cool mid-century ranch from The Parent Trap, which is one of my all-time favorite film houses. 

KIM: Yeah. Where the dad lives. 

AMY: Yeah, exactly. So it's that kind of house. And Cassandra is driving back for the wedding and we find out right away that Judith is kind of the good twin and Cassandra is kind of the hot mess twin. She's feeling dismayed at the idea of her sister getting married, um, and what that means for her relationship with her sister.

KIM: And she's kind of at a loss right then in her life. 

AMY: Yeah.

KIM: It’s going to get made into a movie, apparently.

AMY: Yes! It's being adapted for film by Neon, which is the same film company that did Parasite.

KIM: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.

AMY: A woman named Sarah DeLappe is going to be writing the screenplay, and she wrote a play called “The Wolves” that was nominated for a Pulitzer prize. So apparently…

KIM: So excited for this. 

AMY: I don't know when that's coming out. I guess not for another year or two, I would think, but I'm interested to see who they will cast, and I think it'll be a good one. Um, so then my third book that I picked up, I kind of knew it was gonna be about sisters because it was called Sisterland. It's by Curtis Sittenfeld, the author of Prep and...

KIM: mm-hmm.

AMY: Eligible, that Jane Austin, uh, was like a remake of Pride and Prejudice, if you remember that. This one, yet again, adult twins, Violet and Daisy. They both have psychic powers. One of them has sensed that an earthquake could be coming to the town that they live and she becomes like a media sensation trying to warn everybody. Yeah.Um, so I have to admit, I was starting to feel twinned-out and so I got three-fourths of the way through before I finally was like, I can't deal with twins anymore. I just can't. I decided to not finish that one. But I think people would like it. I just couldn't do any more twins. 

KIM: Okay. 

AMY: So the next book I get is Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson, who I believe, I'm not 100% positive that he's confirmed, but we've talked about him potentially being a guest on our show. 

KIM: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I think that's gonna happen. 

AMY: So anyway, I pick up his book, Nothing to See Here. It happens to be about a young woman who has offered the job of a nanny for two young twins, a girl and a boy. The only catch is she finds out that these two children spontaneously catch on fire when they get upset. So that was a fourth book I read about twins. And even though I was twinned-out at that point, I finished it and I really, really liked it. It's really funny and cute book.

KIM: Okay. 

AMY: Um, 

Like 

KIM: Like Firestarter.

AMY: "Firestarter meets Mary Poppins" would be like the elevator pitch for this one. Yeah. Um, so that one's good. But yeah, I don't know why I had four twin books land in my lap all at once. I don't know what the universe is trying to tell me there, um, but it got me thinking that there are a lot of books where twins factor in, and I think it's because there is so much you can do with it as a writer, it symbolizes so much, right.

KIM: Yes. And you could show two different types of personalities and how they interact. 

AMY: There's so many plot devices that you can do using twins. I mean, I who used to write about soap operas for a living, know that that is a trope that you can always do something, with the twins, which is why Shakespeare, like, okay, let's talk twins in literature. Shakespeare's one of the first things you think of right. .Um, we have Sebastian and Viola in “Twelfth Night.” 

KIM: And “Comedy of Errors.”. 

Yeah. So I think he definitely uses it for that plot device idea of like switching identities and "I'm mistaking you for this other person," which also then makes me think of A Tale of Two Cities.

KIM: Oh, yes.

AMY: I think I always thought Sydney Carton and Charles Darnay were somehow twins. They weren't, they just looked alike.

KIM: I don't remember now. I love that. 

AMY: I mean, they looked so much alike that they were able to be interchangeable. Um, . So, yeah, East of Eden. John Steinbeck, there's the whole Cane and Abel parallel, you know, with the, the brothers. That's a good one. We have the twins from The Secret History.

KIM: Mm-hmm.

AMY: Donna Tartt.

KIM: Yes.

AMY: I think you read Her Fearful Symmetry.

KIM: Yeah. 

AMY: by Audrey Niffenegger. Remember that one? It was set in the famous cemetery in London. Um, and there are two twins that are the main characters of that book.

KIM: Yeah. I mean, the first twins you always think of are the ones from The Shining, which…

AMY: Oh yes. The Grady Twins, which, um, come to think of it, Julia and her best friend, who looks a lot like her, dressed as the Grady twins from The Shining for Halloween. We'll post photos from that on Instagram if we can. 

KIM: I love that. Julia has a dark side. 

AMY: Oh yeah. But the funniest part about it is like, we're all hanging out on the street and she and her friend are Grady Twinned out, and all of a sudden Julia's jaw drops as she looks down the street and sees a family approaching, like a couple and a young child. And I didn't know why Julia was having this reaction at first until the couple gets closer and they are having the same reaction towards her. Turns out they are dressed as Jack Nicholson and Shelly Duvall and the little kid. The dad had a hatchet. The mom was wearing like the brown corduroy jumper. So yeah, it was like a fated meeting between all The Shining characters on Halloween night, which was fun. Now also when you were saying like the first twins that come to mind for you as The Shining, but for me, I always think of Sweet Valley High.

KIM: Oh, right. Yes. 

AMY: Did you read those? 

KIM: I read a little bit. I wasn't as into them. Yeah. I don't, yeah.

AMY: I think it goes back to the The Parent Trap thing where like, just the idea of having a twin is, especially when you're younger, I mean, did you ever have dreams of having a twin?

KIM: Oh, I love the idea of having a twin.I love that idea. Absolutely. 

AMY: I think it would be neat, but also hard.

KIM: Yeah. I mean, we actually have a lot of twins in my family, um, on my dad's side. So, I've been around twins growing up. They were always very different because they weren't identical. They were fraternal. But it was interesting just seeing the difference in their personalities and everything.

AMY: So I found in these books that I was reading, there was like a common theme that kept coming up and that was always like kind of the good twin versus the bad twin. You always have one, especially in literature. One's always kind of like a hot mess. Even Tale of Two Cities, you know? Like they're not even twins, but you have the alcoholic and then you have the do-gooder. That's why I think it would be hard to be a twin in some respects, because I think there's a natural tendency to want to put twins in those roles. 

KIM: Yeah. And you want to be your own person and be taken for who you are, yourself instead of being compared or juxtaposed with your sibling. But what I love is all the research about twins, where twins are separated at birth and they end up marrying someone with the same name and they have the same jobs and all that kind of stuff. It's interesting.

AMY: Yeah, it is. They're on the same wavelength. 

KIM: Have secret languages when they're kids and everything, so, yeah.

AMY: For this episode, I looked it up on Goodreads, "twins in books," and 414 entries came up. So I feel like it's just an enticing, um, topic. Even a friend of mine, Janelle Brown, our daughters are friends, um, she writes a lot of books, but her most recent release is called I'll Be You. And it's about twins who grew up in Hollywood. Kind of like the Olsen twins, and they've now grown up and they're not in Hollywood anymore, but one of 'em, uh, joins a cult and then the other one has to try to save her from the cult. So I'll Be You. Um, a couple other "lost lady" books about twins. Elizabeth von Arnim, you remember her from, she wrote Enchanted April? So she wrote a book called Christopher and Columbus, which sounds like something we'd like. Yeah, set during World War I kind of era. 

KIM: I thought it was gonna be set in the 15th century.

AMY: No, no. no. no. In the early part of the 20th century in England. And two young girls, fraternal twins, their mother dies and so their relatives decide they would be better off getting sent to America to live with an aunt or something like that. So they get sent by themselves, on a ship, to sail for America. And while they're on the ship, they meet like a rich man who kind of takes them under his wing. And I guess it's kind of a comedy. I haven't read it, but I flagged it. 

KIM: Yeah, let's put that on our list to read. I'm definitely intrigued.

AMY: And then there's another really old one that I thought sounded enticing called The Recess. It's by an author named Sophia Lee. Um, let me just read the description that I found here. " The novel is set during the reign of Elizabeth I first and features as narrators twin daughters of Mary, Queen of Scots marriage. So it imagines" like, what if Mary, Queen of Scots had had these secret babies?

KIM: You would never think of that from the name.

AMY: Well, it's called The Recess because these twin babies are sent off to a cave basically to be raised so nobody can find them...  Because their lives would be in jeopardy sort of thing. 

KIM: Like King Arthur, Only two girls or something. 

AMY: I mean, 

KIM: yeah. 

AMY: It’s all fictional. Like Mary Queen of Scots did not have babies. 

KIM: What year was it?

AMY: 1783.

KIM: my God. We have to add this to our list.

AMY: Yeah. If we can find it. I don't know how readily available it is. 

KIM: I'm gonna see if I can find it.

AMY: The biography of the Porter Sisters mentioned it. 

KIM: My Spidey-sense is going off.

AMY: Yeah. So, um, lots of twin books and listeners, I'm sure you guys can think of even more . Um, this is just the ones that occurred to us off the top of our head.But let us know if you know of other twins in literature. Shout 'em out to us. 

KIM: That's all for today's Lost Ladies of Lit. Visit our website for more information and show notes and to sign up for our newsletter.

AMY: Our theme song was written and performed by Jennie Malone, and our logo was designed by Harriet Grant. Lost Ladies of Lit is produced by Amy Helmes and Kim Askew.