4. What’s In a Name?

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KIM ASKEW: Hi everyone! Welcome to this week’s “Lost Ladies of Lit” mini episode. I’m Kim Askew...

AMY HELMES: And I’m Amy Helmes. Thanks for tuning in! Our last featured book was Diary of a Provincial Lady by E.M. Delafield. The narrator in that book is never referred to by any name, and a lot of the other characters are referred to in the most generic terms, like “the Vicar’s wife,” and the name of the children’s French nurse is “Mademoiselle.” In the case of this book, it worked really well to keep a lot of the names very non-specific.

KIM: Yeah. Naming characters is tough.

AMY: I mean, when it comes to our books, I just have always agonized over the name situation. I find myself on those baby name websites dissecting the meaning of the name to see if I can work that in somehow. It’s tough, because you want it to be perfect.

KIM: Yeah, you want that name to feel like, “Oh, of course, the person was born with that name.” And the fact that we have our novels based on Shakespeare plays help us a little bit, because we have a starting point, something to riff off of. But it’s still a challenge to find something that’s exactly right. We’ve even changed some names midway through a manuscript because we were either calling them the wrong name or it sounded too much like another character’s name. So that’s happened.

AMY: Yeah. So many times in our writing, whether it’s a script or book, we’ll say, “So-and-so… but not REALLY So-and-so.” Because we know that’s not going to be their permanent name, but we have to refer to them as something. But what do you think is the key to a good character name in a book?

KIM: Well, it has to stick with you, so you don’t want to be going back and saying, “Who is that?” You want it to roll off your tongue. You want it to sound natural and apropos to the character… but unless you’re writing satire or something, you don’t really want to veer into oddball territory. Unless you’re Charles Dickens, I guess.

AMY: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So Speaking of Charles Dickens, I heard about Martin Chuzzlewit that before he chose that name he had a bunch of other names in mind, like Martin Sweezleden, Martin Sweezleback, Martin Chuzzletoe, Martin Chubblewig, Martin Chuzzlewig, before he finally settled on… what was it again? Now I don’t even know the real name… Martin Chuzzlewit. Yes.

KIM: Okay, so any of those names actually could have worked, I think, because he’s so good at naming characters, he is the undisputed master. Uriah Heep. Ebenezer Scrooge, Fezziwig….They’re all great.

AMY: Uh-huh. He actually even had a character who’s a mean schoolmaster in Hard Times that was called Mr. M’Choakumchild. I mean, so hilarious in its literalness there.

KIM: Yeah, that’s a memorable and terrifying one. So let’s talk about our favorite character names in books, but before we do, I just remembered: Did you know that HAL from 2001 Space Odyssey, the novel by Arthur C. Clarke is, consecutively and alphabetically, one letter off from IBM? 

AMY: I did know that, actually. It’s a very good “Jeopardy” question, right? But I know that because my friend’s dads worked at IBM and she told me that anecdote and I always remembered it, because how cool? “Open the pod bay doors, Hal.”

KIM: “I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.” 

AMY: You’re not as creepy as Hal. Sorry.

KIM: Okay, good! I tried though! So for me, I’d have to say Raymond Chandler’s detective Phllip Marlowe is one of my favorite names in all of literature. I love the character, first of all, and I also love that the surname Marlowe is the same as Christopher Marlowe. He’s, of course, the other Elizabethan playwright. And there is a connection, too, between Chandler and Marlowe. Chandler took the name (apparently, it’s been said) from Marlowe House, which is the house he belonged to when he attended the English boarding school Dulwich College. Marlowe House at Dulwich College was named for Christopher Marlowe.

AMY: I like it! I like when they have connections or other meanings, you know… they’re not just pulled out of thin air. What about sexy leading men in books, like those characters? I’ve got to give it to Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights, even though when I was a kid and I read Wuthering Heights, I was always thinking of the cat Heathcliff, the cartoon cat. But now, for me, Heathcliff is just that unforgettable hottie, you know? And his name is unforgettable as well. 

KIM: Okay, aside from the cat Heathcliff, which now has completely ruined…

AMY: Have I ruined it? Oh no, I’ve ruined it for you!

KIM: I somehow didn’t really think about the two together, because I was going to say Heathcliff is a beautiful… it’s a very sexy name. It’s really good. And then there’s Fitzsimmons Darcy (a lot of people don’t actually know his first name, but it’s Fitzsimmons.). 

AMY: That’s too much of a mouthful actually, really. Can you imagine if we had to keep reading “Fitzsimmons” over and over in Pride & Prejudice? I’m glad she just stuck to Mr. Darcy. But speaking of sexy guy names from novels that are a mouthful, the one that I’ve always loved saying is Ralph de Bricassart from The Thornbirds. It’s just fun to let that roll off your tongue (And I think “Ralph” combined with “de Bricassart” is just the weirdest contrast.) So I don’t think I’ll ever forget that name. Nor will I forget watching that with you.

KIM: That’s one of our… we have so many great memories of watching that kind of stuff together.

AMY: We laughed so hard watching that movie.

KIM: We did laugh really hard. I like Sir Percy Blakeney and his pseudonym, The Scarlet Pimpernel. 

AMY: Oh, yeah, The Scarlet Pimpernel. Now, I hate to do this to you, but I have another association that’s always weird in my head with that one, which is “pumpernickel.” That always comes up too. I think when I was younger I would always equate that.

KIM: That’s great.

AMY: I think pimpernel is a flower right?

KIM: Yes, it is.

AMY: Okay, right. Actually, about that book, I just learned that that book was written by a woman! I had no idea.

KIM: Yeah, it’s Baroness Orczy. I hope I’m pronouncing that right. And she was a real person, obviously, but her name sounds straight out of fiction. 

AMY: Yeah, it does.

KIM: It’s a good name. What about Tristam... Tristram Shandy? People often get that wrong (which I did just now) and say Tristam when it’s actually Tristram.

AMY: Tristram. That’s almost a tongue-twister. It’s hard to say that way. But either way, I think it’s a good name, you’re right. But let’s talk about some ladies.

KIM: Yes.

AMY: We’ve got Hester Prynne from Scarlet Letter. That’s a pretty good name.

KIM: That’s really good. And Bathsheba Everdene from Far From the Madding Crowd. Which, many times I have accidentally said Far From The Maddening Crowd, because somehow I want to say “Maddening.” Anyway.

AMY: Yes, I agree. Anna Karenina. She has to make the list. And if we are going to talk about kids’ books, my favorites would be Pippi Longstocking — I love her name — and Hermione Granger is really good, too. She wouldn’t be the same if she was just named “Lisa” or something like that.

KIM: No. They’re so memorable. As is Inigo Montoya! 

AMY: “Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die.” Can you imagine if his name was just something like, “Paul Rogers?”

KIM: Or even Ralph De Briccarsart?

AMY: Yeah! “Hello, my name is Ralph De Briccasart…” What about Natty Bumppo from James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales? I don’t even think I read that, but I know that name, Natty Bumppo. And then Atticus Finch, of course! (And Boo Radley) from To Kill a Mockingbird. Those are both good ones.

KIM: I have one you’re going to love! 

AMY: What?

KIM: Horatio Hornblower from the C.S. Forester series.

AMY: Ooooh, YEAH!!!!

KIM: You guys, Amy was obsessed with this series. Obsessed with it.

AMY: I mean, still am obsessed with it. I love it. That character name is flat-out ridiculous, I acknowledge that, but when I was in my 20s, I read every book in the series, and Ioan Gruffudd (I don’t know how you say his last name….)

KIM: I think it’s “Griffith.” I think it’s Welsh.

AMY: That’s the Welsh? Griffith? He played him in the television miniseries on A&E, and that whole thing is just so swoon-worthy. 

KIM: Which you got me into that, and I loved it.

AMY: I always love a good sea-faring novel, which is kind of funny because I don’t think anybody would look at me and think I’d be into that, but I have sitting on my nightstand right now William Golding’s To the Ends of the Earth, which is another nautical trilogy. And that was adapted into a BBC miniseries starring Benedict Cumberbatch, which… also a good name!

KIM: Great name.

AMY: That’s a real name, but that’s one somebody would write.

KIM: True.

AMY: But yeah. Love me my British sailors.

KIM: I think you were probably in the British navy in one of your former lives.

AMY: Maybe. But I did discover that I know how to make hardtack, in case I ever need to do that, now I know that I can make bread that will last for six months.

KIM: Oh, yeah, you mentioned this a few months ago. Your attempts at pandemic bread-baking didn’t really turn out as you expected.

AMY: No. It was a tremendous fail. So this is when the pandemic was first starting and everyone was getting into baking bread and there’s no bread on the store shelves, right? Slim pickings, basically. So I was like, “Oh, I can make some bread like everybody else that I’m seeing on the Internet!” So, I used a package of yeast in my cabinet that had probably been sitting there for like twe-- 15 years. Maybe not 15, maybe seven years.

KIM: You almost said 20.

AMY: Yeah. It was a really old envelope. And I learned that, oh yeah, yeast has a shelf life and it’s not seven years. So that bread came out like a brick. By that point in time, there was no way you were going to be getting any instant yeast in your grocery orders. It was gone everywhere. I thought, “Well, maybe I should try making my own yeast from scratch.” So I looked up recipes on the Internet. It involves, like, soaking raisins and grapes on your counter in, like, sugar water. The first batch turned out a layer of mold on the top after a couple days. So I threw that out and made another batch. The second batch looked like it might actually work. So I made two loaves of bread, and they wound up, when I baked them, they looked really good. They have a nice crust, perfectly brown, then I went to cut it and it was... just…  jaw-breaker. 

KIM: Oh wow.

AMY: So I could have taken it on a six-month sailing voyage, but I gave up on the bread-baking adventure and I will be buying my bread loaves from now on, thank you very much.

KIM: Okay, that’s a great story. And making bread from a starter is truly a “Lost Art.” Kudos to everyone out there who has picked it up during this pandemic. We’re really impressed with you.

AMY: Kim, have you taken up any lost arts during this pandemic?

KIM: No, but I did start a podcast! 

AMY: Yeah, podcast, that’s pretty good. I’ll give you kudos for that as well.

KIM: Okay, but i have been daydreaming a lot about travel during this pandemic, and I’m sure a lot of our listeners have, too. It would be amazing to just go someplace tropical.

AMY: Yeah. If only. Well, how about the island of Guadeloupe in the French Antilles? You can go there next week with us on our podcast. Maybe not literally, but figuratively, in next week’s episode. That’s where we’re heading.

KIM: That’s exactly right. That was a great segue to the home of our next “lost lady,” Simone Schwarz Bart as well as the setting of her 1972 novel The Bridge of Beyond. 

AMY: She’s an author who we think is very deserving of some more recognition, and we can’t wait to discuss her. So catch up with us again next week!

KIM: For more information on this episode, as well as further reading material, check out our website, LostLadiesofLit.com. And if you loved this episode, be sure to leave a review. It really helps new listeners find us!

AMY: Got an idea for a “lost lady” you love to see featured on our show? Let us know. And let us know what you think about the books we’ve recommended so far. Until next time, bye everyone!

[closing music]

Our theme song was written and performed by Jennie Malone, and our logo was designed by Harriet Grant. “Lost Ladies of Lit” is produced by Kim Askew and Amy Helmes.